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NotSure
Joined: 3/09/23 Posts: 1,147
Stowell
Posted Tue, Apr 15 10:36 am
That thread ran into a wall.

Like us against Tennessee, Wiscy and Purdue.

My biggest criticism of Cronin, which makes me laugh when people think I'm a fan, is that NO coach ever succeeds unless they have a system on O and D and then recruit to fit it.

Coaches who do find 3-stars that become stars as SOs because they fit.

Wooden did it.

Harrick was the first since Wooden who did it and he got canned for off the court issues.

Howland had a system that the NCAA and Pac-12 banned (no more bumping... grabbing and elbowing... cutters, no more hedging... grabbing and tripping... on screens). Big East Bully Ball worked until they stopped allowing it and Howland never found his footing again... and there were off the court issues.

Lavin changed everything to suit whoever he recruited. So did Alford. Doomed to failure.

Like Farmer, Hazzard and Brown.

And Bartow and Cunningham, though they both quit on their own, as did Brown, since he sure put a system in place at Kansas as Bartow did at UAB after and Memphis before.

Cronin clearly had a system that suited the players he inherited from Alford: Create mismatches in a half-court offense and play hellacious d at the other end.

Yes, and don't turn that ball over. Not with Cody and a year and a half of Jalen (RIP) as your posts.

Jaylen fit. Amari fit. Adem fit. Peyton fit. But some guys want to get going to the NBA ASAP.

Did Dylan fit? Not at PG, certainly not compared to Tyger.

Bazz? Brandon? Nope, not yet.

And where did the 5 Euros fit? They didn't.

Do Tyler and Eric D fit? Maybe: Both got a lot better than they were from the year before, but need to get better.

Skyy fits. Was a better defender than foul-prone Kobe who was a human turnover machine at times.

Donovan fits... LIKE A 5-STAR GOLD SPECIAL. WHOA, WHO'S GOING TO HOLD HIM BACK?

Eric F fits.

Trent fits... just give him time (not minutes on the court; I mean years to develop) and you'll see something special.

Jamar fits.

Steve fits.

X-Man fits. He fits way better at what Cronin wants his bigs to do than what Izzo wants his bigs to do.

Devin, you fit... what have you done?

Does Nik fit? Yes, if we accept that it might not be until he's a JR that he's gained strength, speed, quickness, explosiveness and becomes a Big G. But he's at Duke still.

So, now I see a plan. I wasn't sure if the Tyger years were a plan or what he had to work with.

Now it has to work or else.
agon123
Joined: 5/30/15 Posts: 282
What is the system?
Posted Tue, Apr 15 2:25 pm (Edited Tue, Apr 15 2:26 pm)
In response to Stowell (NotSure)
Mike, you use the past tense to refer to Cronin's system:

"Cronin clearly had a system that suited the players he inherited from Alford: Create mismatches in a half-court offense and play hellacious d at the other end.

Yes, and don't turn that ball over."

How would you describe the system in place now that makes the players you list for that system? Has Cronin changed it since his years with Alford's recruits ?

Ps there some good nostalgia about you being shared over at the BZ board
NotSure
Joined: 3/09/23 Posts: 1,147
DD
Posted Tue, Apr 15 7:00 pm
In response to What is the system? (agon123)
DD will make TOs & way more assists; shoot a lot better than Tyger, create more for other guys to get assists by scrambling ds with his penetration and fast breaks.

Skyy fits. Best A/TO ratio on the team. Best G 3 shot. Best penetrator (Sebastian penetrated, but unwisely too often). Ran fast breaks, filled wings best.

DD and Skyy play hellacious d. 5 deflections per steal.

Trent: Long arms. He got burned on d, but tipped the ball away, jumped passing lanes, even blocked a shot from behind, rebounded. He must have 6-7, 6-8 wingspan. He needs muscle, better footwork, a lower dribble, more change of speed. A really smart guy can learn these and I expect him to be better.

Eric F: 6-5 200 now and who knows what on November 1? He's the best athlete at G and very strong. Great balance, big hands. He can shoot off the bounce from 23 feet and usually you see those guys in the NBA... Caleb Love had that and when he was on, he was on and nothing the d could do. Plus, he plays the flight of the ball for rebounds and knows how to run a break and drive and dish and can go with either hand.

Jamar Brown seems like an athletic David Singleton. But Summit guys are all over the map like the league itself. Dalton Knecht and Grant Nelson got better stats in the SEC than the Summit. Some guys put up the same numbers against higher competition. Some guys proved not to be real.

We won't know with Jamar until we see it happen.

What I hear on Brandon W: Lost 20 pounds of baby fat, added 10 pounds of lean muscle, looking like a Big G, hitting 3s, strong handle, making plays, getting to the ball faster and elevating faster and higher... but compared to what? Can he be a W? Will he be a Chris Smith by the time CS was a JR or will he be CS as a SO next season?

We won't know until we know.

Eric D: Work hard, young man. No reaching instead of moving your feet on d. Stay away from elbows flying at your nose. Keep shooting 3s, turnaround fadeaway Jaime Js, and lower that dribble so you can beat people at all 3 levels (dear Lord). I think he's 6-7. Maybe he can be a W, maybe not, but maybe he's a very good 4 who beats out Tyler unless Tyler works harder. He needs to improve his rebounding technique. Fire Savino?

Steve: Speed, soft touch to 15 feet, runs like a G. But against Big 10, he needs rest. X can be Steve a level up, but not living on h.s. stars. Izzo wants bangers. Cronin will let you run if you play d by moving, not banging.
Crispy
Joined: 1/13/14 Posts: 6,904
Bilo got a lot better?
Posted Tue, Apr 15 5:50 pm
In response to Stowell (NotSure)
I'm Not sure about that Not Sure......he was damn good at Oregon St.

Cronin gave up on Mara against Purdue. Saying he played a lot is a joke. He averaged 12 minutes a game.... that's what Peyton Watson averaged as a doghouse Freshman. I know you recall it being more but it was actually 12... for both.

I respect you a lot but I would have canned Mick's azz for the mismanagement of Mara and Andrews. One tourney with one win in two years (against powerhouse double digit seed Utah St) doesn't fly.... unless you're really loved by the administration and fan base... which is iffy.

I am currently scouting wings south of the border.... just drove by a place called Crispy Pollo! Who knew? Too bad I'm a pescatarian. I asked for the Jaime Jacquez and they gave me Camerones.

NotSure
Joined: 3/09/23 Posts: 1,147
40% From 3 Up From 34.5%
Posted Tue, Apr 15 6:32 pm
In response to Bilo got a lot better? (Crispy)
And his perimeter d when hedging on screens and doubling improved 100% over the last 1/3 of the regular season (you never know when some guys get it). SPG from 0.6 to 0.9 in less MPG, plus a positive A/TO ratio (because he's passing the ball to the right guys and passing it more often than at OSU to better shooters, sort of on the last part I guess Skyy shot it well towards the end and he got some passes to Aday for point blank dunks).

He had 6 deflections more than 20 feet from the basket against Utah State. He never did that at Oregon State. I doubt he had 1 all season.

At OSU, his defensive assignment was "Stay in the lane and don't commit fouls, ever. In fact, stay away from everyone so the refs don't think you committed a foul."

His RPG went down, but spending a lot of time 20 feet from the basket on d instead of right under the basket will impact your d rebounding. A 6-9 wingspan ain't a 7-7 wingspan. That makes a big difference. But Aday can't hedge away from the basket without causing our whole d to collapse.

That's on Cronin: Recruit guys who don't fit your system and you're preparing them to fail. And failing your employer.

Yes, Tyler got a lot better.

He has a ways to go before he can be the 4 on a Final 4 and maybe NC team. A lot of hard work still. No rest for him.

Cronin never talks about Tyler's work ethic, but he talks about Eric D's a lot...

But that might be a coach thing. Coaches pull that stuff a lot. It's like, you know, coaching...

Remember, there are 4 letters in UCLA and 3 in USC. Make sure you're watching the right game if you want to check out how UCLA's players are doing.

None of us wants to hear what's going on over at that accursed abode of arrogance unless it's "Everyone is developing from one year to the next like Dylan"...

That's a cheap shot, I apologize to Dylan.

You're right, something off the floor must've happened and we may never know. Stuff like that almost never happens unless something off the floor happens.

I know of one guy who became a Dad at age 19, Mom was putting stuff in her body she wasn't supposed to, and everything went downhill. Not at USC or UCLA. But I still read the scouts saying, "I guess that guy was overrated; he sure fooled us all. Must've choked playing against real competition instead of no d AAU ball. Don't blame us for not seeing his flaws, it was all in his head."

What a place for it to be...